Josh and Aaron discuss what they would choose as their walk-up song if they were allowed to have one in a trial.
Listen here or read the transcript below. FVF’s Summary Judgment podcast is available wherever you listen to podcasts including Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeart Radio, and more.
0:00:00.0 Aaron: Hey, Josh.
0:00:01.4 Josh: Hey, Aaron.
0:00:02.9 Aaron: Do you ever played baseball?
0:00:05.2 Josh: Oh, man, I play a lot of baseball.
0:00:06.7 Aaron: I know that. Actually ran into Judge Slagle…
0:00:11.2 Josh: Oh yeah.
0:00:12.3 Aaron: At the baseball field at Northwest Little League here in Austin.
0:00:14.2 Josh: Yeah.
0:00:15.9 Aaron: And got him to tell me the story of using your bat in Little League when you guys were on the same team together.
0:00:22.7 Josh: That’s awesome.
0:00:23.9 Aaron: Yeah, and…
0:00:24.9 Josh: I’m glad that I left a lasting positive impression.
0:00:27.2 Aaron: A lot of people know your name at the Little League.
0:00:28.7 Josh: I was there.
0:00:30.1 Aaron: Due to your brother.
[laughter]
0:00:35.3 Josh: Yeah, I was gonna say due to the tantrums that I threw inevitably game to game to game.
0:00:42.7 Aaron: No, I think you got a good reputation there. But one thing that happens at The Little League sometimes is the walk-up song. You know what I mean by that?
0:00:54.1 Josh: Yeah, I mean we didn’t have them when I was in Little League, but I know that it’s a thing now.
0:00:56.6 Aaron: Don’t you wish you did have them?
0:00:58.2 Josh: Yes.
0:01:00.3 Aaron: It’s so good.
0:01:01.8 Josh: Yes.
0:01:02.9 Aaron: It’s so good. Especially, I love… I’ve done a lot of coaching at Northwest and we would always have one kid who just kind of wasn’t going the same way as the rest of the grain and he would pick a song that was just out there and it was like kind of moody and weird.
0:01:18.0 Josh: Yeah.
0:01:22.6 Aaron: And I loved it. There was one kid who… His song was the Super Mario Brothers.
0:01:24.8 Josh: Well, that’s great.
0:01:29.4 Aaron: The music.
0:01:30.4 Josh: Do do do…
0:01:31.2 Aaron: Do do do do.
0:01:32.1 Josh: No.
0:01:33.7 Aaron: Yeah.
0:01:34.3 Josh: No trademark infringement here.
0:01:35.7 Aaron: No, I mean.
0:01:36.5 Josh: This is not for commercial purposes.
0:01:39.7 Aaron: And that kid mashed. He was like, I’m gonna hit a bomb off of you.
0:01:40.5 Josh: You have to.
0:01:44.4 Aaron: Yeah.
0:01:45.3 Josh: That’s gonna be your song. You have to mash.
0:01:46.9 Aaron: Exactly.
0:01:47.2 Josh: It’s like walking up to Sarah McLachlan. It’s like you gotta be able to perform.
0:01:55.6 Aaron: No shade, Sarah. I love you.
0:01:57.5 Josh: Yes. Yes, in a certain context.
0:02:00.3 Aaron: Celebrate her whole catalog. So Josh, let’s talk trial. What would be your walk-up song if they would allow us to have one in trial and if it were like actually a good thing to do?
0:02:15.0 Josh: You know, I thought a lot about this ’cause you asked me to. And I thought that I’d have a hard time coming up with it, but I didn’t. My walk-up song would be… Ready? Would be… Are you ready for this?
0:02:28.5 Aaron: By the way, this better be the same as mine since we’re business partners to go.
0:02:29.9 Josh: It’s definitely not the same, I don’t know what yours is but I doubt it’s the same.
0:02:37.1 Aaron: Let’s just say it at once. No, you go ahead.
0:02:38.0 Josh: Mine would be Uprising by Muse.
0:02:40.5 Aaron: Wow.
0:02:41.1 Josh: Yeah.
0:02:46.8 Aaron: You just totally blew my mind ’cause I don’t know what that song is.
0:02:47.1 Josh: Oh!
0:02:47.7 Aaron: I think we’ll probably get in trouble if we play it, but could we do this Nintendo do-do-do thing again? We can you kind of do it?
0:02:56.2 Josh: I mean, it’s hard to do. Here’s…
0:03:00.1 Aaron: It’s a podcast you have to say yes, and matter what I say.
0:03:08.8 Josh: Here’s what we’re gonna do. Here’s what we’re gonna do I’m gonna outro to. I’m gonna get ready for it on my phone.
0:03:08.9 Aaron: Alright.
0:03:10.0 Josh: And I’m gonna play it but I wanna hear what yours is first.
0:03:15.2 Aaron: Okay. Mine, this is a little bit of a cop-out ’cause it’s a little too good, but I think Underdog by Spoon would be my walk-up song.
0:03:23.7 Josh: Okay.
0:03:25.6 Aaron: For a couple reasons. One, I enjoy that song. I enjoy Spoon. I’m from Austin.
0:03:28.5 Josh: Yeah.
0:03:31.9 Aaron: They’re from Austin. They wrote that song like… I know where they were living when they wrote that song. And two, I was at a time in my life when I heard it where I was like, yeah, I’m the underdog, you know.
0:03:41.4 Josh: Yeah.
0:03:50.2 Aaron: I’m trying to get my life together and and I can like access that emotion, which is important because as I’ve said many times probably on this podcast before, there is nothing better than emotional force for winning jury trials.
0:03:58.6 Josh: Yeah.
0:04:03.5 Aaron: It’s the thing.
0:04:03.6 Josh: Yeah.
0:04:07.2 Aaron: If you can get it, grab it ’cause it will make you win. And trial is this place where no matter how powerful, no matter how rich, the corporate defendant they have to be accountable for their behavior before 12 people from the county.
0:04:21.4 Josh: Yeah.
0:04:24.6 Aaron: And I think it’s a great time for the Underdogs on but.
0:04:27.1 Josh: Trial is battle. Alright? It is battle.
0:04:28.4 Aaron: Yeah, yeah, that’s fair. That’s fair.
0:04:33.3 Josh: And I think you have to be amped up. It’s so interesting, trial, preparing for it, it’s like you can never prepare enough.
0:04:38.7 Aaron: True.
0:04:43.2 Josh: You can never prepare enough because there’s a lot of unknowns, a lot of variables that you can’t be prepared for. There’s a whole defense strategy that you can’t be prepared for but you can’t know exactly the details of what they’re gonna do most of the time. So there’s a lot of thinking on your feet, you got judge, you don’t know what they’re gonna do and your interests are directly opposed and adverse to the person on the other side of the room at trial and man, you gotta get amped up. You gotta get amped up and you have to find yourself in the right mindset to just like at some point, you just step in the ring and once you’re in the ring, it’s on and there’s no stepping out of the ring. And being in the right mindset and being prepared for that and letting just sort of the situation take over, it’s such an incredible feeling.
0:05:42.5 Aaron: Yeah, I’m with you on that. I think if we had walk-up songs, like what do you think the defense would walk in with?
0:05:50.8 Josh: Oh gosh. Oh, man.
0:05:57.2 Aaron: Bom bom bom bom Or the Darth Vader theme.
0:06:01.4 Josh: Yeah, probably a Darth Vader theme would be pretty good.
0:06:03.5 Aaron: This is our chance to make fun of them. We can say whatever we want. This is our podcast.
0:06:08.1 Josh: Yeah, maybe some like…
0:06:08.3 Aaron: They can’t defend themselves.
0:06:08.8 Josh: Maybe some like a weird owl. Speed it.
[laughter]
0:06:13.3 Aaron: Actually, I would respect that.
0:06:14.0 Josh: It’s very fair.
0:06:16.8 Aaron: Like it’s pretty good. Ladies and gentlemen, credit defense, hats off.
[laughter]
0:06:25.5 Aaron: Man, you know what’s weird about… You were talking about basically like your entrance and a lot of it it has to do with your personality. And there’s this big question about how much or how little personality to have in court. There’s a lot of theory that you need to be… Appeal to everyone and therefore the most bland version of yourself. The other possibility is that, I’m gonna be liked by whom I’m liked by and I’m gonna be disliked by whom I’m disliked by, I just need to drive forward on the people that are gonna like me. And it’s not even really all about likability. Part of that… First of all, I’m an advocate for going with your personality.
0:07:16.2 Josh: Yes.
0:07:18.0 Aaron: Lean into it As long as you got the facts.
0:07:20.4 Josh: Yeah.
0:07:22.5 Aaron: Because if you got the facts, you’re supposed to win in court.
0:07:23.2 Josh: Yeah.
0:07:28.5 Aaron: And so I think people… And if you… Especially if you have your connection to your client, if you’re wearing your heart on your sleeve, if you’re being your authentic self, you can be the quirky weirdo. I mean, we’ve seen Ally McBeal has even got like great examples of this in TV. And yet, it can be compelling. And so if you wanna walk into court playing the Super Mario Brothers theme as your walk-up song, I think you can do that as long as you mash.